Chinese (Simplified) 简体中文

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Re: Chinese (Simplified) 简体中文

Post by admin »

Whoops, I did not know about this PM restriction.

Michael Lu
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Re: Chinese (Simplified) 简体中文

Post by Michael Lu »

(This one is near the end of file, so maybe it's newly-added) "wiping file <#> of <2:#>" is translated to "擦除文件 <2:#> 中的 <#> 个". Plug 21 and 42 into the text, and it reads "wiping file 21 of 42", but "擦除文件 21 中的 42 个" means "wiping the 42 things in the file named 21".
Please read again, who is wrong?
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stevenlele
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Re: Chinese (Simplified) 简体中文

Post by stevenlele »

Michael Lu wrote: 04 Feb 2020 03:18
(This one is near the end of file, so maybe it's newly-added) "wiping file <#> of <2:#>" is translated to "擦除文件 <2:#> 中的 <#> 个". Plug 21 and 42 into the text, and it reads "wiping file 21 of 42", but "擦除文件 21 中的 42 个" means "wiping the 42 things in the file named 21".
Please read again, who is wrong?
Yeah I know I wrote the numbers in the wrong order (in fact I noticed that right after I submitted my reply, I was just too lazy to correct it), but "擦除文件 42 中的 21 个" just reads "wiping the 21 things in the file (named) 42" - it's still wrong. My point is not the order of the numbers, but that the wording is absolutely a mess.

The correct translation is "正在擦除第 21 个文件 (共 42 个)" which reads "wiping the 21st file (42 in total)." You should also notice that you missed the "正在..." or "...中" (-ing).
[Edit: or you might add words to your translation: "正在擦除 42 个文件中的 21 个", but it's not as easy to read - it's not native Chinese]
Additionally, the "wipe" should be translated to "粉碎" (shred) because this is what Chinese users usually see, instead of "擦除" (wipe).

This is just an example - I don't have the time to list all the mistakes you made in the translation. There are hundreds more.

And your opposing me with the mere fact that I made a tiny mistake is meaningless - this does not prove the quality of your translation, nor does it show I'm shitposting. What it shows is that you don't want to admit that you made mistakes (or you just don't understand translation). You see, you can't disagree with my examples other than this tiny typo.

By listing the mistakes, I want to show the translation needs improvement - I care about the quality of the software, not attacking you. If you don't want - or cannot - proofread the translation, please give the chance to others.

If you think I sounded impolite, I apologize - you see, I'm not cursing you. I know doing the translation was hard work and I respect that, but it's just not so good imo. I'm commenting on the translation and trying to make it better. Maybe your reply annoyed me a bit but I didn't mean bad. No hard feelings please.

Thank you.

Michael Lu
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Re: Chinese (Simplified) 简体中文

Post by Michael Lu »

stevenlele wrote: 06 Feb 2020 10:04
Michael Lu wrote: 04 Feb 2020 03:18
(This one is near the end of file, so maybe it's newly-added) "wiping file <#> of <2:#>" is translated to "擦除文件 <2:#> 中的 <#> 个". Plug 21 and 42 into the text, and it reads "wiping file 21 of 42", but "擦除文件 21 中的 42 个" means "wiping the 42 things in the file named 21".
Please read again, who is wrong?
Yeah I know I wrote the numbers in the wrong order (in fact I noticed that right after I submitted my reply, I was just too lazy to correct it), but "擦除文件 42 中的 21 个" just reads "wiping the 21 things in the file (named) 42" - it's still wrong. My point is not the order of the numbers, but that the wording is absolutely a mess.

The correct translation is "正在擦除第 21 个文件 (共 42 个)" which reads "wiping the 21st file (42 in total)." You should also notice that you missed the "正在..." or "...中" (-ing).
[Edit: or you might add words to your translation: "正在擦除 42 个文件中的 21 个", but it's not as easy to read - it's not native Chinese]
Additionally, the "wipe" should be translated to "粉碎" (shred) because this is what Chinese users usually see, instead of "擦除" (wipe).

This is just an example - I don't have the time to list all the mistakes you made in the translation. There are hundreds more.

And your opposing me with the mere fact that I made a tiny mistake is meaningless - this does not prove the quality of your translation, nor does it show I'm shitposting. What it shows is that you don't want to admit that you made mistakes (or you just don't understand translation). You see, you can't disagree with my examples other than this tiny typo.

By listing the mistakes, I want to show the translation needs improvement - I care about the quality of the software, not attacking you. If you don't want - or cannot - proofread the translation, please give the chance to others.

If you think I sounded impolite, I apologize - you see, I'm not cursing you. I know doing the translation was hard work and I respect that, but it's just not so good imo. I'm commenting on the translation and trying to make it better. Maybe your reply annoyed me a bit but I didn't mean bad. No hard feelings please.

Thank you.
Well, if you find any mistakes and point them out I will correct them and appreciate you. But you want to take over my work which I spent several years,I decline. That's all.

stevenlele
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Re: Chinese (Simplified) 简体中文

Post by stevenlele »

Michael Lu wrote: 07 Feb 2020 04:55 Well, if you find any mistakes and point them out I will correct them and appreciate you. But you want to take over my work which I spent several years,I decline. That's all.
Fine. It's a shame that I can't improve the translation for all Chinese users. I guess I'll keep it to myself then.

Borut
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Re: Chinese (Simplified) 简体中文

Post by Borut »

You both want to do a great thing for the Chinese community. You both want to do your best. Why not make two language versions for Chinese Simplified - if technically possible? The community will be able to choose. The time will show...

In a documentary I once heard: "China was never a country. China is an idea."

Be above your egos. Be up to the quest.
Win 10 Pro 64bit

stevenlele
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Re: Chinese (Simplified) 简体中文

Post by stevenlele »

Borut wrote: 07 Feb 2020 11:09 You both want to do a great thing for the Chinese community. You both want to do your best. Why not make two language versions for Chinese Simplified - if technically possible? The community will be able to choose. The time will show...

In a documentary I once heard: "China was never a country. China is an idea."

Be above your egos. Be up to the quest.
I agree with you. But, hey, check this:
admin wrote: NOTE: I cannot allow more than one official translation per language. So, before you start translating, check in this forum if any other translator is already working at it!
This is why admin asked me to get the permission of the original translator.

I make my own version, but there is no way anyone else can use it (or know it).

admin
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Re: Chinese (Simplified) 简体中文

Post by admin »

XYplorer has many users in China and I never heard any complaints about the current Chinese translation. The translator Michael Lu is very reliable and fast, and that's over a long time. So, while not speaking any Chinese, I don't have the impression that there is any urgent need to improve the translation.

If there are any important mistakes (and mistakes can always happen) then anybody (incl. stevenlele) is welcome to point them out and I'm sure Michael Lu will fix them.

Borut
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Re: Chinese (Simplified) 简体中文

Post by Borut »

stevenlele wrote: 07 Feb 2020 22:08 I make my own version, but there is no way anyone else can use it (or know it).
Hm... Unless you publish it as an unofficial version in a thread of its own, somewhere on this forum. It would not be available on line in the application itself, but it would still be easily available. Or would this not be welcome (I am just a user and translator into another language here)?

I also have the problem of not knowing Chinese, but advocate alternative ways in principle. (And a Google translator - not that I am fond of or believe much in machine translation or Google - kind of agreed with you in your example.)
Win 10 Pro 64bit

stevenlele
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Re: Chinese (Simplified) 简体中文

Post by stevenlele »

Borut wrote: 07 Feb 2020 22:43 Hm... Unless you publish it as an unofficial version in a thread of its own, somewhere on this forum. It would not be available on line in the application itself, but it would still be easily available. Or would this not be welcome (I am just a user and translator into another language here)?
To be short,
  1. This is troublesome: If you can get a *working* copy of translation in the app, who would want to look for another one on the Internet? Not to mention people who download from other sources, who don't know this forum at all.
  2. They don't know English: This is an English forum. Who would want to use a website written in letters they don't know?
  3. (supplement of 1) Chinese people are considerably tolerant of bad translation as long as it is not completely trash - particularly when it is not in a game but in a professional app.
Therefore, no one will see or use this version.
admin wrote: 07 Feb 2020 22:17 XYplorer has many users in China and I never heard any complaints about the current Chinese translation. The translator Michael Lu is very reliable and fast, and that's over a long time. So, while not speaking any Chinese, I don't have the impression that there is any urgent need to improve the translation.

If there are any important mistakes (and mistakes can always happen) then anybody (incl. stevenlele) is welcome to point them out and I'm sure Michael Lu will fix them.
My answers may seem offensive, but unfortunately hold true for Chinese people. I hope you don't see me as a troublemaker or something.

"You never heard any complaints" does not equal to "the translation is good."
  1. As I said before, Chinese people are considerably tolerant of bad translation as long as it is not completely trash - particularly when it is not in a game but in a professional app. Chinese translations are relatively rare for foreign softwares, so people might think: it's good as long as there is Chinese translation, no matter how the quality is.
  2. Because they don't know English, they cannot complain in this forum in English. Even if they want to do, they don't have experience in software translation, which means they don't know what is the correct translation and what is the exact problem. They just find the translation confusing. So they don't bother to complain. You see, complaining is very, very hard - take me for example, even if I am able to point out what's wrong and provide the clues, nobody takes my words seriously. If the user's English is poor and don't know the exact clue, can you say you will believe him? No. This is somehow just a waste of time.
  3. XYplorer is a software with very complex configurations, and this is to some extent where all the mistranslation happens (the translator doesn't know the terms well). But some users only use a small proportion of the functions, so the bad translation barely works. Even if they want to use advanced features and find the UI confusing, they ask for help in Chinese forums, and there are detailed tutorials which help them use the feature (thanks to XYplorer being a good software). They do not need to complain.
Yeah, the translation somehow works. But are you satisfied with a translation that barely passes the "test" and gets a 50 out of 100?

"The translator being fast over a long time" does not equal to "he is reliable and his translation is good."
  1. There is machine translation to help. To some extent, speed = bad quality.
  2. Paid business translation in Chinese is infamous for poor quality. They translate quickly, but they translate something as simple as a plain story into things you can't read with joy.
  3. XYplorer is a professional software, which is way harder than a plain story to translate. The translator is neither professional (being in a localization business) nor experienced, so this is not something you call reliable.
Anybody is welcome to point out "important mistakes".
  • Again, the mistakes are scattered in the hundreds or thousands of text strings. How can I have the time to point them out one by one?
I'll list some more mistakes here:
  • "Shell" (file manager) is translated to "the shell of a bug".
  • "Mouse Down Blow Up" to "Pop up something when you press down your mouse".
  • "Open Throw Away Clone" to "Open an (animal) clone that you throw away immediately".
  • "...modify the registry of the host system." to "...modify the registry of the plant-or-animal-which-parasite-lives-on system."
  • "Dropped Messages" to "the messages that you drop on the table/floor".
Remember these are random findings and there's no way I can list them all. Also I can't list the inappropriate translation of terms since there's no way to let you know - they share the same English word.

I'm very tired after talking this much to you. I should've known that any complaint would fail. I guess I'd better not waste any more time "gibbering" in the forum.

Thank you for bring us a great software. I appreciate it. Goodbye.

admin
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Re: Chinese (Simplified) 简体中文

Post by admin »

Translation is difficult business, and the XYplorer translation is a huge job. And it's voluntary unpaid work. I'm greatful for every translator that commits to this "deal" and for everybody that helps improving the results. That's all I can say.

jiangzhenjerry
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Re: Chinese (Simplified) 简体中文

Post by jiangzhenjerry »

Very interesting discussion. I have been following this thread for the past few days as a visitor, but eventually decided to register and share a bit of my two cents.

As everybody agrees or should agree, translation requires a lot of hard work. Regardless of whether Michael Lu did it by 100% human translation or by basing off of machine translation, his work should be respected and appreciated. AFAIK he has been an active translator for many software applications and over many years, so kudos to him!

With that said, it is also apparent to any Chinese that Michael's translation is not perfect. Most errors are subtle while some are more noticeable. stevenlele's example of "wiping file <#> of <2:#>" is a very good one: the original translation is "stiff" and confusing, although understandable at the end of the day. I feel stevenlele should have received more support and appreciation for his carefulness and thoughtfulness.

I don't think it hurts if stevenlele posts his translation here in this thread and if admin subsequently includes a link to the file on the Languages page. I wouldn't view it in the form of "taking over", rather "standing on the shoulders of giants" - which is how advancement is made in all fields.

admin
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Re: Chinese (Simplified) 简体中文

Post by admin »

Hey, thanks for chiming in! :tup:

I wouldn't mind a collaboration at all, something like "translated by Michael Lu, looked through by stevenlele". I would not really go for two parallel translations, that looks like begging for trouble to me, and ultimately ending up lose-lose.

Michael Lu
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Re: Chinese (Simplified) 简体中文

Post by Michael Lu »

OK, I change my mind. I agree @stevenlele take the work. I think he/she can do better than me. This is good for XYplorer. I will be very busy with my company work in 2020 and have no time to review the translation. On the other side my English skill is not quite good, I'm a software engineer. In the progress of translating I found it hard to translate some technical words without context. So some words are stiff after translating. But I'm sure every word and sentence is human work.
In fact XYplorer is not my daily file manager, I did the job just for interest at the beginning. Totalcmd is the one. :biggrin:
If @admin and @stevenlele see this post, you know what to do next. I will stay with XYplorer. Good luck.

admin
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Re: Chinese (Simplified) 简体中文

Post by admin »

Hey Michael Lu,

Wow, you use Totalcmd and translate XY? You are an open-minded person! :tup:

And passing on the translation after so much work/time is extremely generous of you. Respect! :appl: Of course, your name as XY translator will stay on the website (unless you don't want this).

So, thank you very much for your work! Many users have benefited from it, and I and XY have benefited from paying customers in China.

:beer: :beer: :beer:

Don

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