Undo/Redo

Things you’d like to miss in the future...
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nas8e9
Posts: 2232
Joined: 21 Jun 2008 14:50

Re: Undo/Redo

Post by nas8e9 »

zer0 wrote:DnDing between XYplorer and Windows Explorer is of special importance [for Vista/Win 7 users] at the moment, because XY doesn't have its own copy/move operations yet. Therefore, I (likely not the only one) have to resort to using WE to do large amounts of copying. On the other hand, I have a feeling (can't test at the moment) that DnDing from WE into XY (on Win 7) won't result in the freezing that normally occurs, because WE is the originator.
Slightly OT and purely for my own understanding: AFAIK, both XYplorer as well as Windows Explorer use the same copy/move-routines built into Vista and Windows 7. Your experience under Vista is that XYplorer freezes when performing a large copy whereas WE does not? Or do you mean Vista (when DnDing from XYplorer) as a whole?

I can't recall seeing that under Vista, nor do I see it currently under Windows 7 x64.

zer0
Posts: 2673
Joined: 19 Jan 2009 20:11

Re: Undo/Redo

Post by zer0 »

nas8e9 wrote:Slightly OT and purely for my own understanding: AFAIK, both XYplorer as well as Windows Explorer use the same copy/move-routines built into Vista and Windows 7. Your experience under Vista is that XYplorer freezes when performing a large copy whereas WE does not? Or do you mean Vista (when DnDing from XYplorer) as a whole?

I can't recall seeing that under Vista, nor do I see it currently under Windows 7 x64.
Please refer to this thread http://www.xyplorer.com/xyfc/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2810 for further discussion about that issue
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nas8e9
Posts: 2232
Joined: 21 Jun 2008 14:50

Re: Undo/Redo

Post by nas8e9 »

zer0 wrote:Please refer to this thread http://www.xyplorer.com/xyfc/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2810 for further discussion about that issue
I think I'll stay out of that one...

Slight hitch: when starting a large copy (several files) and then canceling, the Action Log does not show anything undo-able while some files were indeed copied before canceling (they show up in the destination folder after canceling the copy). The debug log shows this after canceling the copy:

Code: Select all

14:52:16.361 >> 4: C:\Tmp\DOS_Wi764-1_20091018-01.tbi¿
14:52:16.377 >> SHCNE_DELETE, 1=75432000, 2=0
14:52:16.378 >> SHCNE_DELETE: C:\Tmp\DOS_Wi764-1_20091018-01.tbi | DOS_Wi764-1_20091018-01.tbi |  | 
14:52:16.378 >> SHCNE_FREESPACE, 1=75432000, 2=0
14:52:38.662 >> SHCNE_CREATE, 1=75169856, 2=0
14:52:38.662 >> SHCNE_CREATE: C:\Tmp\DOS_Wi764-1_20091018-01.tbi | DOS_Wi764-1_20091018-01.tbi |  | 
14:52:39.911 >> SHCNE_CREATE, 1=75169856, 2=0
14:52:39.911 >> SHCNE_CREATE: C:\Tmp\DOS_Wi764-1_20091018-01.tbi | DOS_Wi764-1_20091018-01.tbi |  | 
14:52:39.912 >> SHCNE_CREATE, 1=75169856, 2=0
14:52:39.912 >> SHCNE_CREATE: C:\Tmp\DOS_Wi764-1_20091018-01.1 | DOS_Wi764-1_20091018-01.1 |  | 
14:52:45.483 >> SHCNE_CREATE, 1=75169856, 2=0
14:52:45.484 >> SHCNE_CREATE: C:\Tmp\DOS_Wi764-1_20091018-01.1 | DOS_Wi764-1_20091018-01.1 |  | 
14:52:45.484 >> SHCNE_CREATE, 1=75169856, 2=0
14:52:45.484 >> SHCNE_CREATE: C:\Tmp\DOS_Wi764-1_20091018-01.2 | DOS_Wi764-1_20091018-01.2 |  | 
14:52:54.483 >> SHCNE_CREATE, 1=75169856, 2=0
14:52:54.483 >> SHCNE_CREATE: C:\Tmp\DOS_Wi764-1_20091018-01.2 | DOS_Wi764-1_20091018-01.2 |  | 
14:52:55.548 >> SHCNE_CREATE, 1=75169856, 2=0
14:52:55.548 >> SHCNE_CREATE: C:\Tmp\DOS_Wi764-1_20091018-01.3 | DOS_Wi764-1_20091018-01.3 |  | 
14:52:59.366 >> SHCNE_DELETE, 1=61603904, 2=0
14:52:59.366 >> SHCNE_DELETE: C:\Tmp\DOS_Wi764-1_20091018-01.3 | DOS_Wi764-1_20091018-01.3 |  | 
14:52:59.366 >> SHCNE_FREESPACE, 1=61603904, 2=0
8.50.0028 beta on Windows 7 x64 RTM.

zer0
Posts: 2673
Joined: 19 Jan 2009 20:11

Re: Undo/Redo

Post by zer0 »

One more Don. You keep us busy with updates and we keep you busy with bug reports :lol:

A lot of the time, there's an icon next to file name either in "Original names" or "New names" (see below), but never next to both. Why is that?
undo_icon.JPG
undo_icon.JPG (12.28 KiB) Viewed 2788 times
Also, for the same operation (tried with Move), sometimes one icon is shown and another time no icon is shown.
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Always using the latest stable two-decimal build

PeterH
Posts: 2776
Joined: 21 Nov 2005 20:39
Location: Germany

Re: Undo/Redo

Post by PeterH »

admin wrote:Excuse the frequent updates :P but this is hard to fix: Virtually no documentation anywhere, no Vista/Win7 here, and Windows changing its behavior dramatically with every new release. Freaking.
You often say you don't use third party software.
Perhaps you shouldn't use windows? :mrgreen:

admin
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Re: Undo/Redo

Post by admin »

PeterH wrote:
admin wrote:Excuse the frequent updates :P but this is hard to fix: Virtually no documentation anywhere, no Vista/Win7 here, and Windows changing its behavior dramatically with every new release. Freaking.
You often say you don't use third party software.
Perhaps you shouldn't use windows? :mrgreen:
Good idea. XY 9.0 comes with own OS "XYndows".

admin
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Re: Undo/Redo

Post by admin »

zer0 wrote:One more Don. You keep us busy with updates and we keep you busy with bug reports :lol:

A lot of the time, there's an icon next to file name either in "Original names" or "New names" (see below), but never next to both. Why is that?
undo_icon.JPG
Also, for the same operation (tried with Move), sometimes one icon is shown and another time no icon is shown.
That's an easy one: Existing files have an icon.

If it's confusing that the icon is simply missing, I could show some placeholder like a "?" or so, but I personally dislike "?" in this place.

admin
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Re: Undo/Redo

Post by admin »

nas8e9 wrote:
zer0 wrote:Please refer to this thread http://www.xyplorer.com/xyfc/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2810 for further discussion about that issue
I think I'll stay out of that one...

Slight hitch: when starting a large copy (several files) and then canceling, the Action Log does not show anything undo-able while some files were indeed copied before canceling (they show up in the destination folder after canceling the copy). The debug log shows this after canceling the copy:

Code: Select all

14:52:16.361 >> 4: C:\Tmp\DOS_Wi764-1_20091018-01.tbi¿
14:52:16.377 >> SHCNE_DELETE, 1=75432000, 2=0
14:52:16.378 >> SHCNE_DELETE: C:\Tmp\DOS_Wi764-1_20091018-01.tbi | DOS_Wi764-1_20091018-01.tbi |  | 
14:52:16.378 >> SHCNE_FREESPACE, 1=75432000, 2=0
14:52:38.662 >> SHCNE_CREATE, 1=75169856, 2=0
14:52:38.662 >> SHCNE_CREATE: C:\Tmp\DOS_Wi764-1_20091018-01.tbi | DOS_Wi764-1_20091018-01.tbi |  | 
14:52:39.911 >> SHCNE_CREATE, 1=75169856, 2=0
14:52:39.911 >> SHCNE_CREATE: C:\Tmp\DOS_Wi764-1_20091018-01.tbi | DOS_Wi764-1_20091018-01.tbi |  | 
14:52:39.912 >> SHCNE_CREATE, 1=75169856, 2=0
14:52:39.912 >> SHCNE_CREATE: C:\Tmp\DOS_Wi764-1_20091018-01.1 | DOS_Wi764-1_20091018-01.1 |  | 
14:52:45.483 >> SHCNE_CREATE, 1=75169856, 2=0
14:52:45.484 >> SHCNE_CREATE: C:\Tmp\DOS_Wi764-1_20091018-01.1 | DOS_Wi764-1_20091018-01.1 |  | 
14:52:45.484 >> SHCNE_CREATE, 1=75169856, 2=0
14:52:45.484 >> SHCNE_CREATE: C:\Tmp\DOS_Wi764-1_20091018-01.2 | DOS_Wi764-1_20091018-01.2 |  | 
14:52:54.483 >> SHCNE_CREATE, 1=75169856, 2=0
14:52:54.483 >> SHCNE_CREATE: C:\Tmp\DOS_Wi764-1_20091018-01.2 | DOS_Wi764-1_20091018-01.2 |  | 
14:52:55.548 >> SHCNE_CREATE, 1=75169856, 2=0
14:52:55.548 >> SHCNE_CREATE: C:\Tmp\DOS_Wi764-1_20091018-01.3 | DOS_Wi764-1_20091018-01.3 |  | 
14:52:59.366 >> SHCNE_DELETE, 1=61603904, 2=0
14:52:59.366 >> SHCNE_DELETE: C:\Tmp\DOS_Wi764-1_20091018-01.3 | DOS_Wi764-1_20091018-01.3 |  | 
14:52:59.366 >> SHCNE_FREESPACE, 1=61603904, 2=0
8.50.0028 beta on Windows 7 x64 RTM.
Yes, I log "actions" from the user perspective, where an action can have several events or operations from the file system perspective. How to handle a half-done action? And a particular addtional problem here is that Windows only tells me whether any operations have been aborted or not. So if Windows tells me there have been abortions it may be that all operations were aborted. Therefore I decided to not log actions where anything was aborted.

admin
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Re: Undo/Redo

Post by admin »

zer0 wrote:Further muddling the waters are: a) DnD WE -> XY, undo in either fails b) DnD XY -> WE, undo in WE works, but in XY fails! :?
a) works ok here
b) drops to the outside are handled by the target. No way to log this.

zer0
Posts: 2673
Joined: 19 Jan 2009 20:11

Re: Undo/Redo

Post by zer0 »

admin wrote:a) works ok here
Apologies, now it appears to work :oops:
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nas8e9
Posts: 2232
Joined: 21 Jun 2008 14:50

Re: Undo/Redo

Post by nas8e9 »

admin wrote:Yes, I log "actions" from the user perspective, where an action can have several events or operations from the file system perspective. How to handle a half-done action? And a particular addtional problem here is that Windows only tells me whether any operations have been aborted or not. So if Windows tells me there have been abortions it may be that all operations were aborted. Therefore I decided to not log actions where anything was aborted.
Windows Explorer does handle cleaning up after a canceled copy: when selecting Edit > Undo Copy after a canceled copy, the files that made it into the destination folder, are removed. Then again, the team programming WE shouldn't suffer from a lack of documentation :) .

nas8e9
Posts: 2232
Joined: 21 Jun 2008 14:50

Re: Undo/Redo

Post by nas8e9 »

admin wrote:Yes, I log "actions" from the user perspective, where an action can have several events or operations from the file system perspective. How to handle a half-done action? And a particular addtional problem here is that Windows only tells me whether any operations have been aborted or not. So if Windows tells me there have been abortions it may be that all operations were aborted. Therefore I decided to not log actions where anything was aborted.
If I understand you correctly, there are two reasons for not logging aborted actions:
1. How to display such a (non- or partial) event;
2. The relevant Windows functions do not provide sufficient information for XYplorer to know whether and if so, what to undo.

In terms of display, something like "Copy/Move (partial, aborted) ... to ..."? As for the uninformative Windows functions, Windows Explorer does manage it; hopefully, a third-party application could do the same. (Directory Opus also manages this, but uses its own copy/move functions.) Speaking for myself, I'd like the ability to undo an aborted, partial copy or move; perhaps you could revisit this with Undo/Redo 2.0?

admin
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Re: Undo/Redo

Post by admin »

nas8e9 wrote:
admin wrote:Yes, I log "actions" from the user perspective, where an action can have several events or operations from the file system perspective. How to handle a half-done action? And a particular addtional problem here is that Windows only tells me whether any operations have been aborted or not. So if Windows tells me there have been abortions it may be that all operations were aborted. Therefore I decided to not log actions where anything was aborted.
If I understand you correctly, there are two reasons for not logging aborted actions:
1. How to display such a (non- or partial) event;
2. The relevant Windows functions do not provide sufficient information for XYplorer to know whether and if so, what to undo.

In terms of display, something like "Copy/Move (partial, aborted) ... to ..."? As for the uninformative Windows functions, Windows Explorer does manage it; hopefully, a third-party application could do the same. (Directory Opus also manages this, but uses its own copy/move functions.) Speaking for myself, I'd like the ability to undo an aborted, partial copy or move; perhaps you could revisit this with Undo/Redo 2.0?
The problem is that Windows does not let me distinguish between partially aborted and totally aborted. That means if I include partial actions I will also include totally aborted actions: you press DEL, then you do Cancel before anything happens: it will be logged. This is of course not tolerable and IMO worse than not including partial actions. Hence my decision.

I'm totally aware that this must be improved ASAP. I just don't see how. :(

nas8e9
Posts: 2232
Joined: 21 Jun 2008 14:50

Re: Undo/Redo

Post by nas8e9 »

admin wrote: The problem is that Windows does not let me distinguish between partially aborted and totally aborted. That means if I include partial actions I will also include totally aborted actions: you press DEL, then you do Cancel before anything happens: it will be logged. This is of course not tolerable and IMO worse than not including partial actions. Hence my decision.
I understand. At the risk of sounding greedy (or naively hopeful), I noticed on the roadmap that Super-Fast File Copy is foreseen at some point (unlike Undo 2.0 currently). Given that Directory Opus manages this, perhaps by "rolling your own" you may be able to accomplish this.

Regardless, I find myself keeping the recycle bin enabled. I didn't see the point for single-level undo like Windows Explorer offered; the Action Log makes this functionality useful for me again. Thank you very much!

zer0
Posts: 2673
Joined: 19 Jan 2009 20:11

Re: Undo/Redo

Post by zer0 »

I'd like to come back to the whole undoing the unzipping thing (sounds a bit risqué, no? :mrgreen: ), if I may. Don, you said that:
I don't see a way to determine whether a dropped file comes from Explorer, or WinZip or wherever it comes from.
Judging from that, one may assume that XY doesn't differentiate between Explorer and WinZip, correct? However, on my Win 7 system (using .0028 beta), I found that if I DnD a file into XY's List from a Zip archive opened with WinZip (14.0) and then undo that action, XY shoves that file into the Recycle Bin. On the other hand, if I DnD from WE and then Undo, XY does nothing and moves onto the next item in the Action Log. Is there a reason for this discrepancy?
Reporting a bug? Have a wish? Got a question? Use search - View roadmap - FAQs: Forum + XY site
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